Prime Minister Begin and President Carter held talks in the White House on 16 and 17 December. The focus of their discussion was the Israeli peace plan. The plan was called by the President a fair basis for negotiations. Secretary Vance termed it constructive and imaginative. At Mr. Begin's request, the United States arranged for him to meet with President Sadat in order to discuss the position of Israel on all issues. This summit was scheduled later for 25 December at Ismailiya. Appearing on C.B.S. television programme "Face The Nation" Mr. Begin expressed his satisfaction with the talks he held with the President. Excerpts:
George Herman: ... Has President Carter supported or endorsed in any way your proposals? Has he put the US Government behind your proposals?
Prime Minister Begin: I found good will and understanding by President Carter, who has contributed decisively to those dramatic events which now make peace possible in the Middle East. I did not ask for any commitment by the President. What I was interested in, as in what I believe President Sadat is interested, was the good will of the US. That we got. Therefore, if I came here a hopeful man, I'm leaving a happy man.
Herman: If I understand your first answer, you come here to explain your proposal to the President.
Begin: That's true. And I think we had very fruitful, very constructive talks. The main question raised concerned what is going to happen with the Palestinian Arabs. I cannot go into details of our discussions, because the first man to hear from me now will be President Sadat. But I can say that our proposal entails the possibility, for the first time in history, of the Palestinian Arabs having self-rule and the Palestinian Jews security. Both are vital.
William Beecher: Can you tell us whether President Carter asked you to reconsider any of your basic proposals before they are presented to President Sadat?
Begin: He did not. I can say that he considers the proposals which I brought to him a fair basis for negotiation to achieve peace.
Marvin Kalb: Does he support them, Sir?
Begin: Well, if he says they are a fair basis, there is some support for them. And I think that is the position now of both the President and the Secretary of State, Mr. Vance, who yesterday made a public statement to this effect, saying that my proposals are constructive and conducive to peace.
Herman: Didn't they also say that additional steps would be necessary, that this doesn't go all the way?
Begin: No. Additional steps were mentioned because we are now at the time of very delicate negotiations. We have actually started negotiations directly face-to-face. There are very complicated problems to solve. Therefore, the American endorsement could not be complete, of course. There will be many problems. For instance, we want a comprehensive peace settlement. We never initiated, we do not initiate today, a separate peace agreement with Egypt. We want peace agreements and treaties with all our neighbours, to the north, to the south and to the east. For the time being, Jordan has not joined our effort, and Syria even opposes that effort. We believe that they will come in. But it is a very serious problem. These are the additional steps to be undertaken.
Kalb: Could you tell us, Sir, what does autonomous self-rule mean?
Begin: It means what it says - self-rule. In other words, the people will have the possibility to conduct their own affairs through their own elected men.
Herman: Even if they elect Yasser Arafat?
Begin: Well, I don't think they will elect particularly that man. But, of course, no negotiations between Israel and the so-called PLO can take place... Of course, we cannot know whom they are going to elect. But I do believe that those who have a completely negative attitude, a destructive attitude, will not be elected. I don't think they will be candidates.
Beecher: If something like this formula should be negotiated, would you exclude the possibility that, after years of Israel and the residents of the West Bank living harmoniously together, a separate nation would emerge there?
Begin: No, on the contrary. I think we shall live together in Judea and Samaria and in the Gaza district. This is our striving all the time.
Beecher: But would you see this arrangement in perpetuity, with the possibility of a nation emerging there?
Begin: There can always be a review. But I wouldn't like to go into detail, because as I said, the first man to hear from me should be President Sadat.
Herman: Have you had any direct or indirect contact with President Sadat recently?
Begin: We have permanent contact through the American Ambassador. I sent President Sadat a message before I left for Washington, informing him about my journey to the US and about the talks to take place between President Carter and myself. Nothing was done behind his back. He knows perfectly well what is going on, and then, I will be going to Egypt to meet with President Sadat in order to inform him about the contents of our talks in Washington, and also, of course, bringing our ideas concerning the peace-making process.
Herman: Have you contacted any other Arab governments, either indirectly or directly?
Begin: No.
Kalb: Is there a difference, Sir, between your concept of an autonomous region on the West Bank and a homeland such as President Carter suggested many months ago?
Begin: Anybody can choose his own language. I prefer to say "autonomy," in Greek; translated into English is "self-rule" - a very good translation. But why should you call it "West Bank"? The West Bank is the whole territory from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean. I think the proper language is Judea and Samaria.
Kalb: Does sell-rule also mean self-determination?
Begin: I think one can say they are synonymous.
Beecher: Mr. Begin, when you're in Egypt, talking to President Sadat, do you think that there'll be some agreement that will actually come out of your brief visit there on this next trip?
Begin: I hope so. And I have a suggestion to make to President Sadat. This I can publish in advance. If President Carter should invite President Sadat and myself to come to Washington, then we shall be in a circle of friendship and faith - a Christian President, a Moslem leader and a Jewish Prime Minister and we can announce to the world Pax Vobiscum, Shalom Aleichem, Salem Aleicum all of which mean "Peace unto you." I think it will be quite an event in the annals of Mankind, in our generation.
Kalb: Is the peace that you speak of a peace for all the Middle East?
Begin: Yes, Sir. This is our striving.
Kalb: And would you seek a declaration of principles that would be applied in the negotiations between Israel-Egypt, Israel-Syria, Israel-Jordan?
Begin: That will be part of the negotiation with the President of Egypt, because the President wants, of course, to have a peace treaty on the basis of bilateral relations between Egypt and Israel. But he also told me that he represents the Arab cause, and that he would like to see a solution to the problem of the Palestinian Arabs. I'm going to propose such a solution to him. And then we shall negotiate. If, as I said, we reach an agreement, then let us announce it to the world.
Herman: One of the crucial emotional issues in this whole question seems to me to be the question of East Jerusalem. When President Sadat spoke before the Knesset, he talked about Jerusalem as an open city. When I questioned him on "Face the Nation" a few weeks ago, I said: "How about East Jerusalem?" And as you may know, he said: "For sure, under Arab control." Now, if he feels so strongly about it, and if the Saudi Arabians feel so strongly about the Arab holy places in East Jerusalem, what is your concept of what will eventually happen to East Jerusalem?
Begin: Would you accept the principle that I feel strongly about Jerusalem?
Herman: Certainly. That's why I'm asking you.
Begin: Well, Jerusalem is and has been, the capital city not only of our State, but of the Jewish People for three thousand years, since the days of King David.
Herman: And a major stumbling block to peace, perhaps?
Begin: No, no; it's not going to be a stumbling block at all. On the contrary, it is the city of peace. As I said in the presence of President Sadat, London is a city, Paris is a city, Cairo is a city. They are not going to be divided; why should Jerusalem be divided? Nobody in his senses would suggest that barbed wire should again divide this city into two parts. Jerusalem is one city, the capital city of our State and of our People, with completely free access to all the holy shrines of every religion, Moslem, Jewish and Christian, as President Sadat himself learned when he visited Jerusalem. He went to the el-Aqsa Mosque to pray with complete freedom, and then he went to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. And he saw how there was completely free access to all the holy shrines. That had not been the case for nineteen years under Jordanian rule. We, for instance, the Jews, could not go to the Western Wall of our Temple, destroyed by the Romans. For nineteen years, we could not go to that holy shrine to pray. Now, everybody can go to his holy shrine. We will, perhaps, have a proposal about self-rule of the religious representatives of their holy shrines, and that is a very positive and constructive solution for everybody concerned.
Beecher: Let's pursue the security issue. We understand your desire that any and all peace agreements stand on their own feet, without dependence on outside guarantees, assurances or commitments. Have you, on this recent trip, discussed with President Carter the possibility of a mutual security treaty with the United States?
Begin: No, we didn't discuss it at all. About guarantees, I would like to say that, in the whole world, there is no guarantee that can guarantee an international guarantee. We have the experience of Czechoslovakia in 1938, the tripartite declaration regarding the Middle East which never prevented any war, a declaration that the international community will never tolerate the closing of the Tiran Straits. Again they were closed; nobody moved. We had to fight not only for the freedom of navigation, but for our survival. Therefore, we do not rely on guarantees; we do not ask for guarantees. We can sustain our own independence, and we shall.
The question of a security pact between the US and Israel is a question to be dealt with as sovereign states should do, without connection with the peace-making process. If the US should find it necessary or possible to suggest a security pact between itself and Israel, we shall be very willing to consider it.
Herman: In this new mood of negotiating, this new momentum towards peace, is everything negotiable with other countries, for example, the Golan Heights with Syria?
Begin: We always said that everything is negotiable, except the destruction of Israel. Everything is negotiable.
Beecher: I'm trying to get some notion of an outside role once you will have succeeded in negotiating peace agreements with your neighbours. Do you see the possibility, the usefulness, of American and Russian monitors in demilitarized zones - whether in the Sinai, on the Golan Heights or the West Bank?
Begin: There are now Americans in Sinai, as you know. There are no Russians. I don't think we would like to have them, either President Sadat or myself, either the People of Egypt or the People of Israel. We have some experience with the Russians. Whenever they come, it's not so easy to ask them to leave. And there is now an international problem. We would not like to have the Russians in our region at all.
Kalb: Could you tell us, Sir, whether your policy is still to encourage Jewish settlements on the West Bank, even within the framework of self-rule?
Begin: I don't have to encourage them. There are settlements. It's the perfect right of the Jewish People to settle in Judea and Samaria, and it will be the right of the Arabs in Judea and Samaria to settle in Israel. There will be symmetrical justice. Everybody will be free to settle. There will be free movement.
Kalb: But supposing within a framework of an autonomous region, homeland, whatever it is to be called, the leadership of the Palestinian Arabs says "We don't want Jewish settlements?"
Begin: Well, why shouldn't Jews and Arabs live together all over the country? We have Arabs in Jaffa, in Haifa, in Lydda, in Ramla. And there may be Jews in any place in Judea and Samaria. These are the tenets of cooperation, of living together. I think everybody will understand it. I don't think it will ever be a problem.
Herman: Mr. Prime Minister, how do you evaluate the role of the Cairo meeting?
Begin: Well, I think it is a very useful conference. Our friends met with their Egyptian counterparts. They were received, by the way, with the warmest hospitality possible. This, too, is part of the peace-making process: coming together, liquidating prejudice, seeing each other, seeing that we can live together, work together and make peace together.