The interview, taped in Haifa during President Sadat's visit, covered many items and again stressed the factors that were common to the two leaders. The interview was more of an attempt to find common personal traits than to elicit an elaboration of the various differences of views that still existed between Israel and Egypt. Above all they emphasised that the slogan coined in November 1977 "no more war, no more bloodshed" was valid and served to guide both leaders in their quest for a broad Middle East peace. Excerpts:
Anwar Sadat: The plan that we planned together - Premier Begin, President Carter, and me - was and still is a comprehensive settlement. So, from time to time, you see, on ministerial level they meet every two weeks or so; but from time to time, for sure, I shall be meeting with my friend, Premier Begin, because we have to fulfil our commitment towards a comprehensive peace settlement...
Menachem Begin: ... Let us look backwards for a while. We signed a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. That's a turning point in the annals of the Middle East. For thirty one years, these two countries were in a state of war, and actually five wars were waged between them with very serious casualties on both sides, and great tragedies. Now we stated in the peace treaty that the state of war is terminated and we will establish peace and we did; and the peace treaty is being put into realization, being faithfully carried out. Now secondly, we signed as a result of the Camp David agreement a common commitment about full autonomy for the Palestinian Arabs in Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza district. The negotiations about it started, they continue - I think the results are positive and the space is quite satisfactory. Only - we need some patience by all observers.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister, what will be for you the most difficult in the future of the peace negotiation you will have still?
Mr. Begin: Well, I wouldn't speak about difficulties - I am very optimistic and we will deal with all the outstanding problems. We never mislead each other, we always say to each other things we agree on, they are agreed, and we shall carry them out. If we have differences of opinion, we voice them; then we try to overcome the obstacles. So I don't think we now have to single out difficulties. We have differences of opinion, admittedly. We hope to overcome them. This is the way to achieve good, positive results.
Q: And you, Mr. President?
Mr. Sadat: Quite the same, like Premier Begin said. We had difficulties before, we had differences before - we have overcome all this. We have now differences, and by God's will and by our will we shall overcome all this.
Q: You have met together eight times, eight meetings. Could the peace be contagious? Could it catch on, for example to Jordan one day, or to Syria one day - Mr. President?
Mr. Sadat: That is what I really envisage in the future. I was telling your colleagues in the Israeli television, that I visited President Assad 48 hours before I visited Jerusalem, and I tried to convince him and so; but he, I don't know if he didn't understand, or he didn't want to understand. But the facts in the area, especially after Camp David and the treaty between Egypt and Israel, you see now: everything is moving and everything is in change. So, I shall not be surprised at all any moment when the Syrians will find some way. There have been some reports that they have contacted our common friend, Ceaucescu, for certain things. I know nothing about it - he didn't tell me about it. You see, the Palestinians are hurrying after the Americans to start a dialogue. Well - everything could happen; I shall not be surprised. But there is one fact I want you to know: We have laid together - Begin, Carter, and me - the solid foundation for a comprehensive settlement in Camp David and in the treaty between Egypt and Israel. It will come. Either they like it or not - it will come.
Q: Could it be contagious, too, in your opinion, Mr. Prime Minister?
Mr. Begin: Well, we would like it to be general. You know, I personally invited President Assad to join the peace making process. From the Knesset I said several times, please come to Jerusalem, as President Sadat came to visit us - if you prefer, I will go to Damascus; we may meet on neutral territory. I said so the same about King Hussein. Of course, neither President Sadat nor I nor anybody else can force any person to come and to sit around the table, to join the talks, and to consider peace. It's a matter of their own personal willingness and decision. What stands as a fact is that we did invite them also in the Camp Cavid agreement, in writing; also in the common letter the President and I sent to President Carter, invited all the heads of state around, our neighbours, to join the peace making process. And representatives of Palestinian Arabs, by common agreement, we invited them all - the invitation stands and why should we lose hope that, one day, they will join and we shall talk peace and also achieve peace. Anyhow - this is what we wish, with all our hearts; this is our striving.
Q: Briefly speaking, Mr. Prime Minister, do you for the moment have contacts with King Hussein of Jordan, for example?
Mr. Begin: No.
Q: And you, Mr. President?
Mr. Sadat: No.
Q: When we compare your two lives together, Mr. President, and you, Mr. Prime Minister, we could be surprised with many things that you have in common, that you share in common. For example, Mr. President Sadat, you have been fighting in the resistance against the British, and you, too, Mr. Prime Minister. Do you think the life you had was the first important point which decided you to have good comprehension, a good climate through the negotiations?
Mr. Begin: Yes, everyone of us has, may I say, something in his biography. President Sadat wrote several books, I wrote several books. We stood by our faith, we stood by our decision that our nations should be free and independent. When we met for the first time, I suppose, we found common language during our meeting at the King David hotel in Jerusalem, by the care for the future; not by memories of the past, because you have to look into the future.
Q: Because of the past?
Mr. Begin: No, no - because of the future. The past is past - everybody has written about-it and, of course, to the extent there was also certain suffering, it is very important; it hardens one, gives you experience. But when we met together, we felt that we have a mission to fulfil for the future of our nations. We care for our nations. We are mortals: today we are here, tomorrow - who knows? But the nations live forever. What we found together since then - there were also difficult times and better times; but there is a real affinity and understanding and friendship between us, that was proved during those eight meetings you mentioned, because we care for the future of our nations. We want them to be secure, free, proud, developing, living together in human dignity and understanding. This is what we live upon and, therefore, I would say, rather than thinking about the past, we pay attention to the future.
Mr. Sadat: Quite right. I quite agree.
Q: Mr. President, the same opinion?
Mr. Sadat. I quite agree with what Premier Begin said and let me add this: It was very easy for us, as you said exactly, for two fighters to perform what can be really described as a miracle. After thirty years of hatred, bitterness, bloodshed it turned to friendship, tolerance, amity. I wonder if you could have seen the people of Haifa yesterday in the streets. I'm indebted until my last day, I shall be indebted to those people and the warm feelings they have accorded me. Well, we have really performed the miracle maybe because we were two fighters, and the fighter is always genuine: either in fighting or in peace, or in any other aspect in life.
Q: Mr. President, do you feel, for the moment, alone in the Arab world - in your country, I don't think, but in the Arab world, in the area?
Mr. Sadat: Not at all. I was just telling your colleagues in the Israeli television: Look what is taking place in Egypt and what is taking place all over the Arab world around Egypt, including what they call the rejection camp. Everything in chaos there; but in Egypt you shall find, come and see by your own eyes, an island of love, friendship, democracy, open country, happy people that have hopes for the future and for good neighbourhood with all our neighbors. And they are, I mean, ceremoniously every day expressing their wish for peace and good neighborhood.
Q: For example, Mr. President, when did you exactly decide to contact the Israeli government or Mr. Begin; when did you decide and for which reason in your mind?
Mr. Sadat: Well, it happened in the autumn of '77, when I found that it is time. There is a very important saying that Bernard Shaw said, that progress needs change of ideas. Those who cannot change their ideas and adapt them to the realities, can never achieve any progress. This I read in prison. Until the autumn of '77, I was adopting the same policy that has been adopted thirty years before; but I was after progress. I was after revolutionary progress, also. So I started thinking of the initiative and I have related the history of his. My first scheme was to ask the five big powers to come and meet with us here in Jerusalem; but then I found why should I hide behind the five big powers. Why not directly face our neighbors in Israel and tell them in the Knesset.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister?
Mr. Begin: When I got the first information that President Sadat made a speech to the Egyptian Parliament and, inter alia, he said that in order to save one life of one of my sons - he meant the soldiers of the Egyptian army - or his being wounded, I am prepared to go to the end of the world, and I am prepared also to go to Jerusalem and address the Knesset - that was, I suppose, the declaration, I remember it almost literally, as you can see. At the very same moment, I decided to extend an invitation to President Sadat - please come and visit Jerusalem, and you will be received with cordially and with friendship, and of course, the Knesset will be with its platform at your disposal, and you will address the Knesset as you wish. We may have differences of opinion, we do not accept certain conditions, but it is your perfect right to come and to speak to the Knesset, and through the Knesset to the people. Then, there were several days - it's an interesting history now - of some negotiations with the help of our American friends. And I sent out, at their request, an official, a formal invitation on behalf of the Government of Israel to the President, which President Sadat graciously accepted, and very quickly, a few days later, the President appeared at the Ben-Gurion airport. There he was in Israel. It was a great historic event, no doubt. All of us still remember it, and there was great rejoicing. The President saw the people in Jerusalem. And since then, look how many developments were there: the President was again also in Beersheba, and in Haifa, as he told you. I was, at the invitation of President Sadat, in Cairo, Alexandria, Ismailia. I was received very hospitably, very warmly, also by the people. I may say, as the President stressed, I win never forget the people of Egypt whom I saw on the streets in the thousands, waving, cheering, and saying to me 'no more war, no more war' - that was the slogan, since we promised each other in Jerusalem: no more war. That is now actually repeated by the people of Israel in the cities, and by the people of Egypt. The peace we signed, we concluded, is of course a peace between two countries, signed by two governments. President Sadat signed it, I did, President Carter as a witness. But it is living reality. It is peace not only between leaders and governments - it is peace between the nations themselves. This is the greatness of the phenomenon.
Mr. Sadat: Quite right, quite right.
Q: Mr. President, I have two questions. First, is it difficult for you and for your friend, Mr. Begin, when you are nationalist great leaders, as you have been, as you are, to be backed by the Americans for realizing the peace, first?
Mr. Sadat: Let me tell you this. Even when the diplomatic relations was severed between Egypt and the United States, and in the moment when I attacked the American policy very vehemently, I was always saying that America is the only partner that has got the cards in this game. Why? For the very simple reason: The thirty years of hatred and four wars and violence and bitterness and so, has created a psychological problem on both sides, here in Israel and in Egypt. We needed someone that can be trusted by both of us to come and help us create confidence. And that is what has happened, really. Now, as Premier Begin told you, he has visited with me in Isamilia, in Cairo, in Alexandria; I have visited with him in Jerusalem here, in Haifa; in the future we shall be continuing this exchange of visits. Well, the American role was very essential and it will continue to be essential; but, as I said yesterday about this issue of the United Nations forces and the position of the Russians, the Soviets in it - well, yesterday and the day before yesterday, we decided, premier Begin and me, to take the matter in our hands in the time being, and make a temporary agreement, until we sit together with our friends in America also. So, it needed creation of confidence and bringing down the barriers of distrust and, thank God, it has happened and we can sit together, Premier Begin and me, now here, or in Egypt, and discuss everything like we discussed the last two days.
Q: I suppose, Mr. Prime Minister, you have the same idea - and I want to add my question, the second one - do you think the Soviet Union has played a negative role or a positive role when it has a role to play in the region?
Mr. Begin: I will still say something about the United States. I can say that both of us, President Sadat and I, do believe in the positive role played by the United States in this process of achieving a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel, the Camp David agreement. President Sadat several times said, and I agree with him, and vice versa -President Carter worked very hard for this purpose. I think we both believe that the United States plays a positive role on the world. You know, the free world is shrinking and it's under permanent onslaught. Look what happened in several African countries, look what happened in Ethiopia, in Angola, in Mozambique, lately in Afghanistan, and in other parts of the world - and freedom must be preserved. We don't want to live under totalitarianism. The United States is a mighty power, but it believes in freedom, believes in keeping liberty; and, therefore, we appreciate very positively its role. As far as the Soviet Union is concerned, it played really a negative role all the time in the Middle East. If you look at the weapons spread in the Middle East: in Iraq; in Syria; in Libya, which doesn't have even enough men to use those weapons, to man them - and they are all actually bases of the Soviet Union to supply of arms, sophisticated weapons, not for love of peace - on the contrary: all the time for carrying on war and bloodshed, sometimes internecine between themselves, as we can see. And, therefore, I think, we can positively appreciate the role of President Carter and the United States. As far as the role of the Soviet Union is concerned, it is absolutely negative. You know, they didn't want to approve the peace treaty and they told the Americans, 'If you bring the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel for approval to the Security Council of the United Nations, we shall veto it.' Imagine: veto a peace treaty. When did it happen? Isn't it paradoxical? Usually you have to veto actions of war, so that peace should be established - and this is the mission of the United Nations. And then is a threat by a great power to say no - if you bring the peace treaty for approval we shall vote against, and that is veto. So this is, of course, as very negative role and, in comparison, the role of the United States is very positive.
Q: I have seen you were nodding the head - I suppose you have the same idea, Mr. President?
Mr. Sadat. I can add another two points. The first one is that I am very happy, I agree with what Premier Begin said, let me add that I'm very happy because the United States has adopted the role of peace making rather than a policeman like what has taken place in Vietnam. This is number one. Number two: They are the first superpower, they are peace makers now, number two - let me tell you this: The Soviet Union at sometime in '72, planned to arrange a meeting between me and Mrs. Meir in Tashkent. I wonder if the framework we signed together in Camp David would have been signed before in Tashkent, and instead of saying 'Camp David', we say 'Tashkent'. This was in '72. What would have been the attitude of the Soviet Union? Would he be using veto like he is threatening now? Hypocrisies.
Q: Did you know this?
Mr. Begin: Yes, of course. It's a well known fact. What I would like to say is, neither President Sadat nor I like anybody to be the policeman of the world. But what we wouldn't like to see is the Soviet Union as the Jailer of the world.
Mr. Sadat: Quite right, quite right.
Q: Before stopping, two other questions, Mr. President, Mr. Prime Minister. The first, Mr. Prime Minister, about the Palestinians: Don't you think, except the the diplomacy problem, the defense problem, which is very important, considering your own life together, that the P.L.O. men are using the same method that you had to use when you were fighting against the British here?
Mr. Begin. No. That is a sacrilege. I would like to say, don't make such comparisons, if I may friendly ask you. What did we fight for? To save a nation. In those days, you know, the Germans under the Nazi regime destroyed the people, our people, in the millions - men, women, and children. This was the national home for the Jewish people, as promised by the Balfour Declaration international mandate. It was shut off, we couldn't come - we had to fight to save our people. What does that organization you called P.L.O. do? They say they want to wipe off Israel. That is the destruction of a nation. Now, you can find out, we have never planned attacking any civilian - we used to wage battles against the British army, the few against the many, sometimes with great sacrifices on our side, as you know - but we never planned attacking civilians. What is the matter with the so-called P.L.O.? They always attack civilians, only civilians - men, women, and children...
... The President of the United States also signed it as a witness. And we have that solution - we only have to go faithful to it and carry it out, giving full autonomy to our neighbours, the Palestinian Arabs in Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza strip; live together in peace, in dignity, as we signed it. And this can change the whole situation, so we hope. And now we negotiate it, and we have very able teams on both sides to negotiate it. So, on this issue, too, we may say that there is a good hope.
Q: Mr. President?
Mr. Sadat. Well, let me tell you this: I think we have achieved in Camp David for the Palestinians what could have never been achieved before, and there is really a marvelous example here that I have seen in Haifa in the last two days - the coexistence between the Arabs and the Jews in this place, in this area of Israel. I joined Premier Begin, that, through Camp David agreements, the Palestinians have gained even more than what they were planning and hurrying after the United States to have some amendment or a new decision, rather than the 242.
Q. For the last question, Mr. President, do you every time think that your life, personal life, could be in danger because of the policy you choose, because of the peace you choose to realize?
Mr. Sadat: Well, I have already stated I am a man of faith. No one will deprive me of one moment of my life, if God doesn't agree. Or - I would be paralyzed and I could have never done anything. No.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister, you are the guest here - the last, the very last question is for you, and quite similar. Do you think, Mr. Prime Minister, you had the luck or the strength to play a better role for peace than had the great people in your country, just like, for example, Mr. Ben-Gurion or Mrs. Golda Meir?.
Mr. Begin: Oh no, I wouldn't say so. Both of them passed away and I have deep respect for all they did for our people. All the governments in Israel wanted peace, all the Prime Ministers. I am now the sixth, five preceded me. Four passed away; One, may he live long, Mr. Rabin, is with us. All of them wanted peace. The question arose how to bring together the parties. President Sadat decided more than two years ago that he is prepared to come to Jerusalem. We stretched out our hands for thirty-one years, but they were not accepted. And that acceptance, of course, changed the situation. I believe that any prime minister in my stead would do the same. What I try to do, as a result of all that I lived through is, really, to serve my people. We lost many, many men, women, and children in one generation. Our people lost six million people. It's an unspeakable disaster. Amongst them, a million and a half of little children. In those five wars, we lost fourteen thousand of our best men. Of course, casualties in war are on both sides, and all are very tragic. You should have seen our wounded soldiers, when they met together at El-Arish; Israeli and Egyptian invalids and wounded soldiers of the wars, It was the most moving scene - and when we both saw it, we said to each other perhaps it is unprecedented in the annals of nations: Five wars, so many casualties, so much sorrow. Now the fighters themselves met, embraced each other, kissed each other, and again the slogan was: No more war. So I think on this we shall end: No more war.
Q: What does it Mean for European people to see you shaking hands before the camera.
Mr. Sadat: It means that we have pledged together to fulfil this sacred mission. And for the last question you have put to my friend, Menachem - the man was very humble. I think, let me tell you this in all candor: The man has got great courage and the man, and let him live until 120, like he always tells me, the man will leave his fingerprints not only on the history of Israel, but on the history of the whole world, as a peace maker and as a fighter who has really vision and was ready, as I told you like Bernard Shaw said, was ready to change anything that cannot be practical or anything that hinders the sacred mission of peace.