On the eve of the second round of the autonomy talks, due to be held in Tel Aviv, Mr. Shamir discussed the future of the Palestinians, arguing that in fact Jordan constituted their state, but that Israel was committed to negotiate with Jordan and will do so "when we are ready" Excerpts:
Mr. Shamir: We want our neighbors, and all international factors, friends and not friends, to know that it is not the time for pressure on Israel. Such a pressure will not help. Israel will not change its position. We know exactly the limits of the concessions we can make and we have already reached these limits.
Q: What happens if people again start saying that the limit isn't good enough, and unless there's more movement from Israel, there's going to be no movement on autonomy?
A: The purpose of the autonomy is clear. What we have proposed is not to create a state for stateless people; and not to give a home to a homeless people. Because the Palestinian Arab people is not a stateless people and not a homeless people. They have already their state. They have already their home and their country. It's called Jordan: but it doesn't matter. Jordan is a Palestinian Arab state. Its population, the majority of it is Palestinian, of Palestinian origin. The culture, the language, the mentality - all is Palestinian. Therefore I can say, the Palestinian Arabs already have a state. But the autonomy solution is to give an answer to the question of this 1.2 million Arab Palestinians who live in the territories of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, and who do not want to live under our control. Maybe the reality will develop, the conditions which will be created, will give an answer which will be acceptable to them.
Q: The only answer that they are talking about at the moment is that the territory of Judea, Samaria and Gaza will become an independent Palestinian state, or become part of a Palestinian state.
A: We will never accept it. We will never accept a second Palestinian state in our country.
Q: What would be the attitude of Israel if the PLO were to overthrow King Hussein and to take control of what you call the Palestinian state across the Jordan river?
A: For us, it is not important by whom will be ruled this state of Jordan, which is a Palestinian state. It can be ruled by King Hussein as now. It can be ruled by others. It doesn't matter for us. For us, it is important, the basic fact that this state is a Palestinian Arab state.
Q: What, about, Israel's argument that a Palestinian state in effect would be a Soviet controlled state?
A: Well, it's clear, if you will see now the links of the PLO with Soviet Russia, and you will listen to the speeches, to their statements and the declarations. It is obvious that this state, if it will someday come into existence, will be a Soviet base of aggression against us, and against the other pro-western countries.
Q: Shouldn't Israel be concerned about who is ruling that Palestinian state, whether it would be King Hussein or whether it would be Yasser Arafat?
A: We cannot intervene in the internal conditions of any neighbor state. We cannot dictate - not to Egypt, not to Jordan and not to Syria who has to rule these countries. It's not our duty.
Q: Would Israel be prepared to discuss with King Hussein and with PLO representatives an arrangement between us and the Palestinian state across the river Jordan?
A: Well, according to the Camp David agreement, we will have to discuss one day, negotiate the borders, the frontiers between Israel and Jordan, and we are ready to do it, one day with the rulers of this country.
Q: If the rulers are very clearly the PLO headed by Yasser Arafat or George Habash, would Israel be prepared to talk with them then?
A: I cannot imagine such a possibility, because these people whose names you have mentioned are opposed to any negotiations - to any contacts with Israel.