Speaking on the program "Issues and Answers" Mr. Begin argued that the Saudi arms sales will pose a threat to Israel's security and that continued supply of arms to the Arab states will tip the balance away from Israel. He rejected the Fahd plan as it called for the liquidation of Israel and was contrary to the Camp David agreement. He promised that the search for a "breakthrough on conditions for establishing the Administrative Council" will continue. Speaking of the continued presence of Syrian missiles in Lebanon, he still hoped that they will be removed by diplomatic means, but would not comment on what Israel's position would be if diplomacy fails. Text:
Q: Prime Minister Begin, last Wednesday, after the Senate approved the eight and-a half billion dollar Saudi arms sale, President Reagan sent you a letter, reaffirming his determination that Israel should enjoy qualitative advantage in the region. You replied, I believe, on Friday, raising some questions about American foreign policy and its new turn toward Saudi Arabia. In "The Washington Post" this morning, there's quite a lengthy article about a secret negotiation that's been going on between the Pentagon and Saudi Arabia, concerning building communications networks, prepositioning military hardware. The Pentagon has denied the story, but it has a lot of very plausible details in it. My question is, the event of the past five days, have they confirmed your worst suspicions?
A: Well, I had indeed an exchange of letters with the President of the United States, Mr. Reagan. He wrote to me probably a few hours after the decision taken by the Senate, and I answered him indeed on Friday. In his letter, the President reassures me that the United States are committed to the security of Israel and it will safeguard, this is the expression, the military and technological advantages of Israel. I answered on Friday and dealt mainly with the problem of the so-called Saudi peace plan which in fact is a plan how to liquidate Israel in stages, as I will probably later have the opportunity to explain to you. But then I also dwelt on the strategic issues and the President did. As far as the information you gave me today, I hear it for the first time, I never heard it when I visited the United States, either from the President or one of his advisors, the Secretary of State or the Secretary of Defense, so I really don't know whether this report is factual. I don't like to suspect anyone, I am not a man of suspicions.
Q: What you do know for a fact though, is the Senate of the United States has approved an eight and a half billion dollar arms package to Saudi Arabia. Now what does that do to the strategic collaboration, cooperation that you and the President discussed in Washington in September? What are you going to ask in return?
A: No, we don't want to ask for anything. I suppose now we will stand by what the President wrote to me. And when I said I am not a man of suspicions, it did not mean that I diminished one iota the great threat to Israel's security through the supply, not only of the five AWACS you said, but also the offensive equipment to the sixty-two F-15 planes, namely fuel containers which will make possible for those F-15's to reach from Saudi Arabia to Tel Aviv and bomb it, or the refueling planes which will also make possible such raids, or the "Sidewinder" missiles which are the most modern and they may change our situation in air fights, which all of ours, until this very day, our pilots won. So all this is a real, serious danger to Israel's security, as we said to the President and the Secretary of State, to the two committees of the Senate and the House of Representatives, as we said in the media and in public meetings, with complete candor therefore there was so great a difficulty probably to pass the two-fold arms deal with Saudi Arabia. As it was, but now it is after the fact. I wrote to the President. I expect his reply.
Q: All right, correct me if I'm wrong, on these three statements, you met with the President, Defense Minister Sharon met twice with Defense Secretary Weinberger in Washington. The first, as is said in Washington, they talked about "band aids", medical supplies be prepositioned in Israel...
A: Not only medical supplies...
Q: What did they talk about?
A: They talked about strategic cooperation. You see, I will explain to you. First I raised the problem in the Cabinet room with the President and his advisors, and I made a distinction between the defense of Israel for which we are responsible, and I told the President, Mr. President, we defended ourselves in five wars which were thrust upon us, and we will defend ourselves also in the future if we are attacked. We, of course, don't want war, we want peace, we yearn for peace, but if attacked we shall defend ourselves. However, in our region and in its periphery, there is now a new problem, of Soviet penetration and expansionism. There is a common interest of the United States and Israel, and the Free World, for this common interest. Let us cooperate and the President gave his full agreement. Then he agreed that the two Defense Ministers meet and elaborate in detail on this issue. And then they published a statement, you probably read it, to the effect that there will be such strategic cooperation between the United States and Israel and they will meet in November in order to try to achieve a memorandum of understanding.
Q: Is Defense Minister Sharon still going next month or has that trip been called off?
A: No, it's this month, November. I don't know, he should get an invitation from Mr. Weinberger.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister, you're quoted, or Israel Radio this morning reported, that in your reply to President Reagan, you said that the AWACS agreement, the AWACS vote, will endanger or halt the peace process. Is that an accurate report, and exactly what effect do you think this AWACS deal will have on the Camp David...
A: I didn't write so to the President at all. But in effect, it may, I cannot say, but the peace process goes ahead, we have a peace treaty with Egypt, we are now continuing with the normalization process, if the so-called Saudi plan, which I
already mentioned which is a plan how to liquidate Israel, should ever be adopted by anybody, then it would be a great obstacle to the peace process. Then, first of all, it will be a complete deviation from the Camp David Agreement, and I heard both the President and the - e Secretary of State, time and again, stating and repeating that the United States of America is faithful to the Camp David Agreements. Therefore, they should reject without any qualifications whatsoever the eight points of Crown Prince Falid, because they mean the opposite of peace.
Q: Has the AWACS deal in any way caused any review, or any reassessment of the Israeli commitment to withdraw from the Sinai next April?
A: No. It did not. We signed a peace treaty, we undertook commitments. We believe that treaties should be carried out, and this treaty should be carried out, and respected by both sides. On our side we shall fulfill our commitments. We hope the Egyptians will fulfil their commitments. Of course, both observance and any possible breach of such a commitment must be mutual. We believe that the Egyptians will carry out their commitments, and we shall carry out our commitments.
Q: Are you anxious to get the autonomy issue resolved before the Sinai withdrawal date?
A: When I was in Alexandria, a few weeks before President Sadat was assassinated, we promised each other that our friends , and both he and myself, will make an effort to bring about an agreement on the full autonomy for the Arab inhabitants in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza District, until the end of the year. Well, since then, of course, time passes, and in the meantime, the great tragedy of the assassination of President Sadat occurred in Cairo. Still we will try, we should try, and therefore we spoke about this subject with General Ali, who is the Foreign Minister of Egypt, when he visited Israel, that we should still try by the end of the year to reach an agreement. If we don't, nothing happens, we will continue. So we agreed, both of us, but we tried to reach an agreement through a breakthrough. The negotiations are stalled for some sixteen or seventeen months and the breakthrough means to reach an agreement on the-conditions which will make it possible to bring about the election and establishment of the Administrative Council.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister, why do you think the United States has not appointed a high level administrator to replace Sol Linowitz?
A: Well, I can only say that I am sorry they didn't. Why I can't say. I didn't ask the President. Because in those days also officials from both sides, Egypt and Israel, conducted negotiations. Only when General Ali was here, present, we agreed that the next meeting, it will be on the eleventh of November in Cairo, will be on the ministerial level. And I informed the American Ambassador about this, that we expected that also the United States will send a member of the Cabinet. It's up to the United States.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister. It's getting back to the question of autonomy. It's been agreed that you will focus on the Administrative Council and the elections. If there is an agreement, a breakthrough as you say in that area, what will happen if the Palestinians don't agree to serve on the Administrative Council?
A: That is a very serious question, Mr. Seamans, because we do not contend that anybody can be dragged to the polls to vote. He should come willingly. It's a matter of more than a million people and they, of course, agree that there should be a democratic, secret ballot and election. They should out of their own free will come to the ballot box. If they don't want to, nobody can compel them to do so. This is the reason, I understand, why President Sadat who asked that question in Alexandria, during our meeting, phrased it like this: If the Palestinians do not accept the agreement we reach, we, he meant the United States, Egypt and Israel, then I will say, we did our duty. I think it is a fair statement. And my answer to your question is we did our duty. Then it's up to the inhabitants, the Arab inhabitants of Judea, Samaria and the Gaza District, to accept it to go to the polls - it's up to them.
Q: But if they don't, what then?
A: Well, if they don't, the status quo ante.
Q: Does that mean the end of the effort to...
A: No, there is no end of the effort, but we did our duty and there's no change from the point of view of introducing the autonomy. We want to introduce it, if the people don't want to go to the polls, what can we do about it? What can you do about it? Nobody can do anything about it. We want them to enjoy full autonomy, when their Administrative Council is established and inaugurated and starts to function, then we will withdraw our military government under the Camp David Agreement, we shall do so. This is our commitment. And then we shall withdraw part of our troops, the others, the remaining forces, will be re-deployed into specified security locations, we shall specify those locations. We shall prepare the map, and there will be movement on both sides, there will be, I suppose, very serious, perhaps historic changes, but if they don't accept it, nobody will force them.
Q: Do you think the atmosphere now here in the Middle East, in the aftermath of the AWACS vote, the problems of strategic cooperation, problems of autonomy, call for a summit conference with you, President Reagan and Mr. Mubarak? Will you welcome that?
A: Well, if the proposal is made, if the President extends to me an invitation, of course well accept it and go, but I don't make such a suggestion. Just a few weeks ago, I met the President and we had very detailed talks with the President himself and his advisors. I wouldn't invite us now. Either the President or President Mubarak, who has much to do in his own country, for such a summit meeting. My colleagues, ministers, members of the cabinet go next week to Cairo and they will deal with their counterparts in the Egyptian government. It is the most serious level you can reach before a summit meeting. We shall see what will come out of that meeting in Cairo.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister, it's my sense, I think its yours, that the Camp David process is threatened by the Fahd proposal. Because you remember initially the United States government rejected it out of hand. Now it's sniffing around it a little bit. So are the Europeans. You feel threatened by it, don't you?
A: You are absolutely right. I agree with you, yes. Both from Europe and from the United States, we hear voices which trouble us very much. Namely, there are some good points, some bad points, it's not true. This is a plan, again I repeat for the third time, how to liquidate Israel and I have to prove it. First: Israel must withdraw under the lines of 4 June, 1967. In other words, to find itself eight miles from the sea shore. But the Six Day War took place fifteen years ago and then our enemies didn't have those long-range arms which they have now, supplied by the Soviet Union. Like the Katyusha missiles, with the range of 21.6 kilometers. Then they didn't have those guns - 135 mm. with the range of 27 km. They have 200 of those guns now, concentrated in Lebanon. And they would have it in Judea and Samaria on the hills in no time. From the Soviet Union. Then the plan, as it is called, of the eight points from Crown Prince Fahd, stipulated there should be a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. A Palestinian state is a mortal danger to our country, because this said in the charter of the so-called P.L.O. Israel should be wiped off the map. And this will turn in no time into a Soviet base because they decided in Damascus that the Fatah, which is the main component of the P.L.O. should strengthen, and I quote "the alliance between the socialist countries, headed by the Soviet Union, and Fatah". This is a euphemism for subservience to Moscow, in other words, we shall have a Soviet base on our neck, our implacable enemy on our neck, with all, no most, of our civilian population hostage and all of them in the range of the enemy's fire. And therefore there is a very great danger, allow me therefore to appeal to the President and to the Cabinet of the United States to make the position absolutely clear there are real, great worries in my country about it. That we, all of us, are faithful to the Camp David Agreement. President Mubarak said so. We said so. The United States also said so, but now I agree with you, there is some confusion about it.
Q: I ask you this because I sense you may be feeling a bit more isolated than you've been for some time.
A: I don't feel isolated, my friend. I would like to assure you that we have many friends. We have millions of Christians in the United States and throughout the world who stand by us. I believe also the American government is friendly. That they did a wrong to us, and an injustice - that the supply of the AWACS and the equipment for attack for the F-15 is a wrong, but that does not weaken, certainly it does not liquidate our friendship. We have to go ahead. So we are not isolated at all. We have problems which we will overcome. We always have problems. We shall overcome.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister, the question of supplying weapons to yet another Arab country comes up in Washington this weekend with the visit of King Hussein. How do you feel about his request for more sophisticated weapons?
A: King Hussein's plan is the same as Crown Prince Fahd. What can I do if royalty is united on the question of Israel? So therefore, supply of modern sophisticated arms to Jordan is a direct threat to Israel. I hope that in the United States it will be taken into consideration. Otherwise, it will seem Saudi Arabia, AWACS, offensive equipment; now comes Jordan; then perhaps comes again Crown Prince Fahd; and then maybe another deal, for God's sake. In the meantime, the Soviet Union supplies arms to Libya, to Syria, to Iraq. We are surrounded on all sides, we have a peace treaty with Egypt, in which we believe, but there is an eastern and the northeastern front, with now 7,000 tanks, with 1,200 planes, it is a real danger. We are not frightened, we can defend ourselves. Again I say, we don't want war, we want peace, but they don't want peace, they don't want even to negotiate with us peace. So that would be also an additional danger, no doubt whatsoever.
Q: Will you ask for more American aid to try to balance this off?
A: No, the question is not of aid. I believe and I once in the United States explained to the President and his advisors, you have spoken until now about a so-called qualitative edge. Now the quantity is turning into a new quality. As the scientific rule goes, you know, under a certain temperature, water turns into ice. For instance, you in the Free World, do not accept the proportion of 60,000 Warsaw Pact tanks as against 11,000 NATO tanks, and therefore you decided to produce the neutron bomb, as a defensive weapon. We believe it will never be used. But it should deter war. Otherwise, the 60,000 tanks can march to the shores of the Atlantic Ocean. Now, the same position with us. So many great quantities of arms, most sophisticated, are being sent both by the East and by the West to the Arab countries, that perhaps in a very short period of time I will have to tell you there is a new quantity and that new quantity creates a new quality and we will have to redress it of course. We will talk to our American friends if they promise us to have technological and military advantages, as the President wrote to me personally, then of course we will need the arms, weapons, to defend ourselves.
Q: Mr. Prime Minister, there is still Lebanon. The SAM missiles are still in place in the Beka valley. There is a cease-fire or suspension of hostilities for the moment. What would cause Israel to either move against the SAM sites or move into Southern Lebanon?
A: We were asked about this question during our stay in Washington and the President asked us to give some more time to Mr. Philip Habib and the Secretary of State told us that in the near future Mr. Habib may be again in the Middle East. So we said yes, we shall give him some more time. The simple reason is that we don't rush into war-like operations. Mr. Habib may be very soon here, as I understand, and we shall give him some more time because he promised us directly on behalf of the President of the United States, that those Syrian missiles must be withdrawn. Let him try again.
Q: And I ask you if they're not?
A: Well, I believe that they will be removed, that's all I can tell you. I will not add anything to What I already said.
Q: Could it be the Saudis will be helpful? The Administration thinks they were helpful in easing the situation in Lebanon last time.
A: I don't know what help they gave. What I do know is what I heard from President Sadat during our meeting in Alexandria. But I don't want to repeat it in public.
Q: Could you give us a hint?
A: If you would be the only two ones to listen, I would, but there are many millions of people who are watching and listening to us. I cannot make it public because the man is dead, I don't want to make statements on his behalf. But he made a very curious and very serious statement about this so-called Saudi Arabian contribution.