The interview revolved on the issue of Israel's presence in the areas and on contacts with the PLO. Mr. Peres felt that Israel could talks to the PLO only after it won the support of the residents of the areas in open and free elections, where there will be no threats against those who oppose the PLO. He also thought that contacts between Israelis and the PLO could strengthen that organization. Describing King Hussein, Mr. Peres called him a sincere and serious leader. He termed Assad, together with Gaddafl, as heads of terrorism. On the eve of Israels 38th independence day he called on Israel to continue to strive for peace, for economic independence and for intellectual independence. Excerpts:
Q: Professor Yeshayahu Leibowitz said after the Six-Day War that the fact that we would rule another people would corrupt us. Has his prediction come true?
A: No. I think that we were corrupted to a greater extent by our being a ruled people. The Jew became dependent, trembling, not confident, pushed into sectors where there are very few productive elements. Living in an atmosphere of discrimination. Not taking advantage of things. We do not rule because we set out to conquer. We rule because we were attacked. We did not come to the West Bank to conquer 800,000 Arabs. We came to the West Bank because we were attacked in the Six-Day War. For this reason we were caught up in situations we did not seek out. Today, too, we are seeking a way to free ourselves of this ruling. Overall we do not want to be a ruling people; but I definitely think that our people, like any other, has the right to self-defense.
Q: The occupation engenders moral corruption, especially among young people who were born into the occupation.
A: I want to put an end to this situation. For this we need an Arab partner, as there was a partner in the matter of Egypt. The great difficulty is to find a partner. It has been proven that when there is an Arab side for peace, concessions are made. Today the negotiations are going on between two coalitions. Between the coalition of parties in Israel and the coalition of states in the Arab world. And it is definitely difficult to conduct negotiations between two coalitions.
Q: If the Palestinians decide in a democratic vote that the PLO represents them, will you then be ready to talk to the PLO?
A: Yes. For free elections to take place, the shooting has to stop, because if every moderate Arab who runs in elections gets a bullet in the head, there will be no elections. I know that you [writer Dahn Ben Amotz] like Damon Runyon's stories: A bunch of fellows sat and played with unmarked dice. One of them got up and said: "How will we know who won?" so he pulled out a gun and said: "Play. IT tell you." In my eyes, this is not democracy.
Q: Do you object to Israeli citizens meeting with PLO people?
A: Yes. I think that gives the PLO strength and it doesn't give anything in return. It's relations for the PLO.
Q: Are you in favor of putting people who meet with PLO members on trial?
A: Generally, in any democracy anyone who goes to talk with the enemy has to receive permission. If he does not receive permission, he is put on trial. This is true not only regarding the PLO, but also the countries who are in a state of war with Israel. For example, ["Ha'olam Hazeh" weekly magazine editor] Uri Avneri wanted to travel to Jordan. I said: Go.
Q: Are you disappointed by the fact that for a year and a half King Hussein has not taken the steps you expected?
A: I'm not disappointed. I know that whoever sets out on a path must be ready for difficulties, for disappointments. But I am not disappointed by the fact that Hussein announced that without him nothing can be done. I don't think that Jordan is a partner in the PLO's War of Terrorism, but rather the opposite. This is one of the understandings we have reached with Jordan. I think that the style changed not only in Israel but also in the Middle East. It's not the natural picture for Arab leaders to speak with respect about Israel and Israeli leaders.
Q: After your meetings with Hussein, does he seem more courageous and credible to you?
A: If you free me of the need to draw conclusions from meetings which no one said ever took place, I would say that Hussein is in my opinion extraordinarily sincere. A serious leader. He too, is under incredible pressures. The war between the Iraqis and the Iranians is a real danger to the existence of his state. He has his own worries.
Q: What is your message to Assad in light of his declarations of war?
A: I say to him, first of all, my dear friend, if you don't want to get into a clash, de-escalate the declarations. We are sending him these messages. For example, there was the matter of the missiles in Lebanon and the fact is that the missiles were removed from Lebanon. The introduction of the missiles into Lebanon was a worrisome matter.
In general it's very hard to figure out what one particular person will do. There's no Syria, there's Assad. he's a person who holds all the cards close to his chest.
Q: Would you say that Assad stands at the head of terrorism, along with Gaddafi?
A: I would say so. Assad is much more of a leader than Gaddafi. Hell now try to get out of the trap he set. He is now starting to understand that there is a punishment without punishment. When he smells punishment, you can be sure hell stay away from that business. That's why he must be pressured to stop being one of the leaders of terrorism. This is what the Americans are doing. Besides this, I have no inclination to compete with Reagan. Reagan has already warned him.
Q: Does this mean that the policy of retaliation failed until now? Until the Americans', intervention?
A: No. I don't deny that there were things that America could do that Israel couldn't do. America can exert economic pressures. It can make use of the European nations. I admit that retaliations alone are not effective enough.
Q: If Waldheim is elected Austrian president, should we reduce the level of diplomatic relations with Austria?
A: In my opinion, we must first of all clarify the facts. A country cannot allow itself the luxury of writing articles. A country must make sure it is on solid ground. And for this reason, before we talk about what the response will be, we must clarify exactly what the issue is. For this reason I have asked the justice Ministry, our justice minister, to check exactly what material we have at our disposal, what are the verified facts that can be concluded from this material, and only afterward to respond. Not to start with a response and afterward get hold of the facts.
Q: And what is your message on Israel's 38th Independence Day?
A: My message is to continue with the two main things. There are two central efforts. One central and main effort is to continue with the peace process, despite all the difficulties that exist. Not to give in to skepticism... to search for peace. It is vital for the nation and the region. The second thing is to work in the financial sphere for stability and growth... These are the two main messages. [Yet] there is one other message, a third one, quite important. Perhaps the most difficult area in which to achieve independence is the cultural one. The battle for intellectual independence continues and is crucial for the existence of the Jewish people, no less than the military and economic campaign.