Yasser Arafat paid his first visit to Gaza on 1 July. Four days later he swore in the Palestinian Authority in Jericho. Following the euphoria created by his arrival, Israel expected the Palestinian authority to begin to administer the Gaza and Jericho areas, and to deal with the immediate and acute economic and social problems. Arafat's visit was the cause for wide-spread demonstrations in Jerusalem and other parts of Israel organized by the opposition. The Prime Minister was not overly concerned with the demonstrations affecting the progress of Israel- Palestinian negotiations. The next phase would be discussions on Early Empowerment, or the transfer of certain responsibilities from Israel to the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria. Mr. Rabin suggested that he proposed moving the Israel-Jordan negotiations from Washington to the region, possibly in the Arava. He did not mention the fact that by then Israeli and Jordanian negotiators had been hard at work drafting an Israel-Jordan declaration. Text:
Q: Are you anticipating crises like those in the talks on the Gaza and Jericho agreement?
Rabin: Firstly, there was no crisis in the previous negotiations. There is a timetable for goals, and the key lies in reaching a detailed agreement on each phase. According to the Cairo Agreements, in this stage we shall deal with three items: first - the remaining items for discussions, and some of them for realization, following the Gaza and Jericho First Agreement. Under discussion are passage over the international border crossings now being built, or the, subject of safe passage (between Gaza and Jericho). Then there are three demands I agreed to discuss, although I clarified in advance my position: Special arrangements in the Rafiah crossing, a policeman on the bridge and the size of Jericho.
The second area is Early Empowerment of authority in at least three spheres. We agreed on five, but there is readiness to deal with others. Negotiations will not be easy: How do you hand over authority in the spheres of education, health, welfare, direct taxation and tourism? There is also the question of the budget - how does it tie in with the continued existence of the Civil Administration, and on the other hand the transfer of authority.
The third sphere, where we are committed to a timetable - we said a month after the 4 May Agreement, and its already 5 July - is the convening of the quatri-lateral committee - Egypt, Jordan, Israel and the Palestinians. One of the subjects mentioned in this connection is the matter of displaced persons.
Now we have to activate the negotiating systems and formulae. We intend to do so - preferably in Egypt. Perhaps they will raise the matter of starting negotiations on the final settlement, but if we focus on all issues, I believe progress will be very slow.
Q: Arafat says that until August the IDF will deploy outside the main territories in October. Does this timetable seem to you practical?
Rabin: We know they themselves think they will not be ready with an election proposal before October, unless they hold municipal elections prior to general elections. These are items on which there are no summations, apart from a summation in principle, as they appear in the DOP.
There is an item connected to the elections - what I term predeployment, because according to the DOP, the IDF redeployment will take place after the elections and the installation of the elected Palestinian Authority. We are talking of leaving centers of population, but this is not yet defined - will it be only from cities and which ones? all this is negotiable.
Q: Arent you afraid of difficulties connected with the exit of the IDF from a city like Hebron where there are Jewish settlers?
Rabin: There will be additional problems when we deal with the Interim Agreement, as I have no doubt that in Judea and Samaria the recipe for what is connected to land will not be similar to those in Gaza. The deployment of the IDF's facilities and the handling of security problems facing the Jordanian line - there is no peace with Jordan, it is quiet but there is no peace - and the settlements problem requires different solutions than those of Gaza. But a similar principle - they will rule over their population.
Q: Will you agree to the proposal to establish a Palestinian police in the West Bank already in the Early Empowerment stage? It is claimed that the Palestinians will not be able to collect taxes without the backing of their own police force.
Rabin: These are issues for negotiations.
Q: Are you satisfied with the implementation of the Gaza and Jericho Agreement so far? Do you intend to raise specific demands from Arafat in you meeting?
Rabin: I foresee hardship in Gaza, if the PLO and the donor nations will not find ways and means through which their funds can arrive. To date no such way has been found. I do not know what exactly Abu Ala concluded in Washington and to what extend Tunisia will ratify what was concluded there. This we shall surely raise.
Q: Will you ask Arafat to begin to raise taxes from the Gaza and Jericho population?
Rabin: If he will not start collecting taxes. The agreement contains the dimensions of taxes and customs to be levied. If he will not collect taxes, I do not know where he will have the money to fund the police or any development plan.
Q: Arafat demanded that Israel transfer to the Palestinians Social Security funds collected from workers from the areas working in Israel since 1967. Will you agree to this?
Rabin: The Paris Agreement (Economic Agreement, ed) does not deal with the past, apart from two items. The first is our commitment relating to the Palestinian workers pension funds. In whatever pertains to the workers of the Gaza Civil Administration, they have a defined pension fund which we maintain. Its their money, and to prevent future claims from us, we shall want that this fund be deposited in an authorized bank and handled in such a way as to insure their rights. As for the Judea and Samaria Civil Administration workers, they have a budgetary pension, and we see ourselves obligated to those who worked and will cease to work. We shall not transfer this money to others. But according to the media, Arafat talks about workers in Israel, and to them we have no obligation under any agreement.
From the moment the Gaza and Jericho Agreement is realized, we are committed, according to the Paris Agreement, to transfer to them 75% of tax collected from residents of the Palestinian Authority working in Israel, as well as their social benefits. But these are small sums. Only a month has passed, the salary level is not high, and this applies only to the registered workers.
Q: What about transfer of customs duties Israel collects on goods destined to the Autonomy?
Rabin: From the sums we have to transfer to them we deduct for electricity and water for Gaza; the Electric Company already received a first payment of 4.5 million NIS for power. We shall demand from them payment for electricity as long as we supply it, similarly for water. If they will not pay, these sums will be deducted from what we have to transfer to them.
Q: Arafat's visit this week marked an escalation in the actions of the Right's activities against the government. Aren't you afraid that the growing protest will hamper the realization of the next stages in the peace process?
Rabin: No. I am not worried. According to my estimate, on the basis of polls taken, 55%-65% support the political move and certainly I am not afraid as long as I have a majority in the Knesset for this. I shall regret if the situation will entail confrontations, as was partly the case in the Jerusalem demonstration or parts of it, but we shall overcome.
Q: Are you worried of a civil war?
Rabin: Of violence - yes, but I find it hard to believe there will be civil war.
Q: U.S. Secretary of State Warren Christopher is returning this month to the region. Are you anticipating any achievements of this visit?
Rabin: During the Christopher visit which will probably start on the 18th, we want to move the talks with Jordan from Washington to the region. Perhaps We shall start somewhere in the Arava, and then move to meetings once on our side and once on theirs. One of the ideas raised is a trilateral meeting on the foreign ministers level.
Q: Is this the end of the bilateral talks that were held in Washington?
Rabin: The previous formula, everyone travelling to Washington for a limited time, created a constraint on the Arab side to coordinate in advance their moves, and this resulted in lining up with the most extreme marker.
We started with the Palestinians out of readiness to recognize the PLO as a partner, after a very long process, and today, the negotiations with the Palestinians, under the banner of Madrid, arc conducted on the basis of the DOP and the Cairo Agreement, and are not conditioned on other partners. If the Jordanians will indeed fulfill what was agreed in Washington and they too will move to direct talks, at least until the construction of all the components that are required to reach agreement on a peace treaty, I shall see in this an advantage.
Q: What about Syria?
Rabin: They are not prepared at this stage for direct talks which are not in Washington and at the level of Alaf (Head of the Syrian Delegation) and Moalem (Syrian's Ambassador to the U.S.), so there is no avoidance from obtaining the good offices of the U.S. At this time the gaps are wide, and I do not want to create expectations that we are talking about talks with Syria and certainly not in one round. The process is much longer.
Q: There was criticism in Israel at the U.S. Administration and at Christopher for not doing enough to promote the negotiations with Syria. Do you share this view?
Rabin: The approach of the U.S. is the right one. Namely, not to bend hands, not to try and formulate their own proposals or crystallize a proposal and bring it to the parties. They realize that an agreement has to be achieved by the parties, since they are the ones responsible for it and for its consequences, for better or worse.
The U.S. can influence, try and persuade, but there is no room for an American position.
Q: When will you detail the withdrawal line to which you will agree on the Golan Heights?
Rabin: It would be gross stupidity for me to draw up lines today. Public drawing of lines is no negotiation.
Q: Syria carried out lately a test launch of a SCUD missile. A few days later you warned publicly of Syrian armament in SCUDS. Do you see in the launch a technical act or a political message on the eve of the Christopher visit?
Rabin: I do not think there was a political message, although surely they know the world knew of the test. Syria's rearmament process continues all the time, aren't we arming? Other nations do not arm?
Q: Do you think Syria is along the way to strategic parity with Israel?
Rabin: I estimate that they have no chance of achieving strategic parity in the foreseeable future. But this does not mean they are not striving to improve their military might.
Q: Isn't there a contradiction between your warnings of a war with Syria and your readiness for a meaningful withdrawal on the Golan, the control of which threatens Damascus?
Rabin: Sitting on the Golan can deter - or produce the opposite result. I do not propose that anyone will determine that it is so or not so. Egypt, for example, has become much stronger from a qualitative point of view. They moved to western armament, much more advanced that what they had. They have today F-16's, they will receive Apache helicopters, advanced U.S. tanks.
Q: Against whom is all this aimed?
Rabin: Ask the Egyptians. I do not ask them, as long as we live in peace and the peace treaty with all its annexes is being implemented. There is nothing in the Agreement about any commitment on our part or the Egyptian side as to the size of the Egyptian army.
Q: In the framework of a peace arrangement, will you demand from Syria to reduce its army?
Rabin: Everything will be done on the basis of mutuality. The security arrangements will be mutual, in geographic proportion, similar to the situation where the Egyptian demilitarized zone is not like the four kilometers in the Israeli zone, which are not demilitarized but have a thinning out of forces.
Q: This week another soldier was killed in Lebanon. Do we expect warming up of the northern border again?
Rabin: There were two weeks of quiet, relatively speaking. 1, Military Intelligence and the General Staff knew the Hizbollah would not remain silent after the severe blow they received at Ein Dardara when we kidnapped - excuse me, brought - Dirani to Israel, and over some successful skirmishes with us.
Q: Foreign Minister Peres talks a great deal on the new Middle East expected after peace treaties. We do not hear you expressing yourself in a similar spirit. How do you see the fruits of peace?
Rabin: I sincerely hope that when there will be an overall peace, opportunities will open for regional development. We have peace with Egypt for 15 years and our exports to Egypt are smaller than those to Chile. From an economic point of view I see in the peace process firstly the opening of the world to Israel. The economic achievements are not on the Arab-Israel plane. We must remember that the economies of Egypt, Jordan and Syria put together, from the point of view of GNP, are smaller than Israel's. When I was in Egypt eight, nine months ago, I was surprised to hear that its national budget is half, perhaps less, than that of Israel, and the population is 60 million.
The immediate economic development, the core of which is exports or investments in Israel, derives from the opening of the world to us in places which were not open in the past. The major growth in exports is the Far East. I hope that when we advance in the peace process, we shall, first and foremost, obtain the removal of the boycott which has not yet been lifted. And if there will be investments - then for regional development, but this is still a vision.