Interview with Foreign Minister Shimon Peres on CNN Live Today
April 30, 2002
BILL HEMMER: There was substantial movement today in Bethlehem, but
still there are about 25 men inside that your government claims are
terrorists, or wanted terrorists, or wanted on a terrorist list. What
have these men done, what are they accused of, and where is the
evidence?
FM PERES: They are accused on specific cases of terror, killing,
murder. They have stains of blood on their hands, and we don't
suggest that they will put in prison without trial. As suggested,
they will have a fair trial in Israel, or otherwise let them leave
the country.
HEMMER: Your government has offered that, or exile as you point out.
The Palestinians have not accepted that in any way. However, they
have offered a trip to Gaza. At any point to end this standoff, would
Gaza be acceptable to the Israeli government?
FM PERES: We have a double problem with it. Number one, they've
penetrated the church against all norms, all accepted norms of
respect for holy places. That's one point. The second point is,
unfortunately in the past when persons like them went to trial and
were put in prison, they discovered the 'revolving door' - they were
not kept in prison. So, we want to be sure that they will be brought
before the court, that justice will be done, and whatever will be the
prison, they will have to respect it.
HEMMER: You raise an interesting point, because what we're hearing
now in Jericho, this jail that may house probably half a dozen wanted
terrorists that are now inside Yasser Arafat's compound, they would
be monitored, essentially, by American and British monitors, or
guardians as some have suggested. Is that a possibility in Gaza if
these men, these 25 men were taken there?
FM PERES: I don't think so. This was a solution for a specific
situation, in the Mukata, which is a group of buildings in Ramallah,
and connected to the presence of Arafat there. Normally, people who
are accused of terror and killing should be put to trial, and sent
according to the verdict.
HEMMER: Let's go to Jenin quickly here. You have said that Israel has
made humanitarian mistakes. The U.N. fact-finding team may be even
disbanded. That's the word we are getting from the U.N. today. But
more to the point of Jenin and the point you're making, what
humanitarian mistakes were made inside the refugee camp?
PERES: I don't remember saying it. I said, on the contrary, judging
by the results, there were not humanitarian problems on a real size.
It started with a blood libel - they said that 3,000 civilians lost
their lives in Jenin because of the military operation of Israel. To
the best of our knowledge, only seven civilians lost their lives. I
regret each of them, but there is a difference between 3,000 and
seven. It is true that another 45 Palestinians - armed Palestinians -
lost their lives in battle. So did 23 Israeli soldiers.
Now, the result is the best measurement to see how the army
behaved. They clearly took all possible measures not to hurt civilian
life. Then again, one should never forget that according to the law,
a refugee camp should not allowed to build centers of terror, to
produce and store illegal weapons or to send suicide bombers to
Israel. All this was discovered in Jenin.
So we have nothing to hide, and we don't want to hide anything. We
feel that we did something not out of our choice, but for lack of
choice. The Palestinians should have done it, and then there wouldn't
be any problems in Jenin whatsoever.
HEMMER: There are many in your government who believe the U.N. is
stacked against Israel. Do you believe the United Nations is biased
against your country?
FM PERES: To answer it honestly, when you look at the structure, the
answer is yes, because you have three groups in the United Nations
which are biased against Israel. There are the group of the Arab
countries, 22 of them; most of the Muslim countries, 55 of them; and
many of the non-aligned nations. So before you begin any judgment in
the United Nations, you discover that Israel has a very small chance
to win, even when she is right. You know, if you have the wrong
scale, one shouldn't be surprised if it gets the wrong weight.
HEMMER: In Ramallah now. If Yasser Arafat is given freedom of
movement, will the Israeli government arrest him at any point?
FM PERES: No. That's not our intention, but we expect Arafat, who is
the elected Chairman of the Palestinian Authority to be true to his
commitment, namely to fight terror, to stop terror, and to settle the
differences between us by negotiations. Not by bombs. This is the
minimum that we expect from him.
HEMMER: So you're saying you will not arrest or apprehend Yasser
Arafat at this point, but you did not take off the table the
possibility that it could happen at some later, correct?
FM PERES: I hope that we shall not arrive at this point. We
understand and respect the fact that Palestinians have the right to
elect their leader. Arafat is their elected leader. It is not for
Israel to fire their leaders, or nominate leaders, but we expect that
the elected leaders will really implement the agreements that we have
signed together, including in Oslo, by the late Prime Minister Rabin,
by myself, and by Mr. Arafat. We have to follow and respect it, and
he has to follow and respect it.
HEMMER: Can you tell us at what point the six men inside the Ramallah
compound will be transferred to the jail in Jericho? And as I ask
that question, there is a suggestion in many circles that the
guardians, the monitors, from the U.S. and Britain may be the initial
footprint, the initial staging point for the future of peacekeepers
in your part of the world. The Palestinians openly have accepted this
as a proposal. Do the Israelis think the same in wanting peacekeepers
on their land?
FM PERES: No, there is a difference between prison and peace. Prison
you are being sent to, even if you don't agree. Peace is a matter of
agreement. As long as we don't have an agreement, I don't see what
can be watched or inspected. So before we shall have an agreement, I
don't think there will be any good reason to discuss this
possibility.