Interview with Foreign Minister Shimon Peres on PBS Television
July 30, 2002
August 1, 2002
MARGARET WARNER: There are reports out of Jerusalem today that Prime
Minister Sharon plans to retaliate strongly against Hamas for
yesterday's bombing at Hebrew University. Can you confirm that? Is
that the plan?
FM PERES: Usually, we don't punish. What we are trying to do is to
prevent. And for that the reason, retaliation is not the right
expression. If we can get hold of the traces of the people who did
this terrible crime, we shall clearly do it.
MARGARET WARNER: President Bush said today, "Israel must defend
herself," when he was asked about this. "But these decisions to make
the area more secure must be made in the context of peace for the
long run." How do you read that? Do you read that as the president
calling for restraint on Israel's part?
FM PERES: I just met the president, and I think we see eye-to-eye
with what he has said. The president has provided a vision for the
two peoples and for the Palestinians. For the first time in the
Palestinian history, they have an American president saying loud and
clear that he's for a two-state solution that was set previously by
President Clinton, too, but he suggested a timetable of three years.
We understand that while this is the vision, we have to prepare the
ground to arrive at that point. We are trying to work out the
humanitarian and economic plan that may pave the way to this
solution.
MARGARET WARNER: But if I could just tie it back to the bombing
yesterday, Hamas said they did this in retaliation for Israel's
killing last week in Gaza of their military leader and 14 civilians.
You said at the time, "I fear that innocent people will pay for this
dearly." Is this just an inescapable cycle? Did you expect this kind
of attack?
FM PERES: I think not only me; nobody expected it. Even now IDF
commanders and politicians are saying that if they had known ahead of
time that this would be the result, we would not have carried out the
operation. Eight times we postponed operations to get hold of
Shehade, the man that was killed. He's a sort of a bin Laden. We do
what you are doing, the same thing, but being very careful not to hit
civilian lives, and clearly not to touch children. That we regret
very much.
MARGARET WARNER: Turning back to the subject you introduced, which
was President Bush's proposals. Your counterparts from Saudi Arabia,
Egypt and Jordan were here last week, and King Abdullah of course is
here today talking about a plan that the Arab leaders want to see
executed, in which Israeli forces would withdraw from the West Bank
towns recently reoccupied and a new sort of Palestinian security
force trained by the Arabs and with the help of the CIA would take
their place. First of all, did you discuss that with President Bush
today?
FM PERES: In a way, yes. I mean, we ourselves would like to go out
from the Palestinian towns. We don't want to reoccupy them. But you
cannot have an evacuation of our forces before there will be a
Palestinian force that's been introduced, responsible for security
and law.
We told the Palestinians in our meetings - I myself sat with them -
and we told them: every place that you will show a capacity to
guarantee the security, we shall get out. And actually we suggested
to them two areas. One is the Gaza strip; they agreed. The other is
the Judea area, comprising three important cities - Bethlehem, Hebron
and Jericho; they agreed, too. They have asked for Ramallah as well,
and I told them, "Look, if you will guarantee the security in
Ramallah, not just by promises but in fact, we shall be out."
MARGARET WARNER: But what kind of evidence would you be looking for
in the way of a guarantee?
FM PERES: I mean, that the situation will calm down - that no more
suicide bombers and no more terrorists will come out from those
cities. And the best test is on the record. I mean, we cannot hang on
words, but if in Jericho life has become tranquilized, we're out.
MARGARET WARNER: But as you know, the Palestinian officials say even
Israel, with all of its power and military power, has not been able,
through this reoccupation, to stop suicide bombers from leaving these
areas and coming into Israel.
FM PERES: That's right, but Israel prevented 80 percent or 90 percent
of the attempts. The Palestinians didn't try a single time to stop
it. What we are telling the Palestinians, "Look, we understand that
you may not be able to achieve 100 percent of success, but try to
do
it. And if we shall see that you are giving orders to your own
troops..." There are between 30,000 to 40,000 Palestinian policemen.
They don't get orders to stop terror. The minute they begin to have
it then we shall begin to move, as well.
MARGARET WARNER: Now, as you know, the Palestinians say that just
before this killing in Gaza last week of the Hamas leader, that they
were negotiating a cease-fire agreement among all these various
Palestinian factions, even Hamas. They further say that they think
the Sharon government knew this and this is why the attack was
launched against Mr. Shehade. So I guess my question is: One, do you
feel that the Palestinians really were moving towards some kind of a
cease-fire agreement? Do you think that's completely out of the
question now? And was there any link between last week's attack and
those talks?
FM PERES: We know that the Palestinians have tried to negotiate with
the Hamas about a cease-fire, but unsuccessfully. The Hamas has two
headquarters, one in Syria, which is very extreme, and they wouldn't
even listen to what the Palestinians are suggesting. I wish they
would reach an agreement, but if you'll ask me when there is a
negotiation between two parties, one party hold a rifle and the other
party suggests reason, I'm not so sure that the result will be
positive.
The Palestinians must take their life in their own hands. You know,
we suffer in human terms. It's very hard upon us, and even our eyes
are full of tears. But the Palestinians are killing their political
existence. The minute they have 12 different groups with bombs and
rifles, each of them shooting in a different direction, whom are they
killing? If not the Palestinian credibility, who made the Palestinian
lose their credibility in the United States - Israel or their own
gangs?
In Europe, in the Israel itself, they must take charge. If they can
do it by conviction, fine. But they cannot do by conviction. And they
must use power. No country, democratic or undemocratic, can afford
having more than one army. If you have many armies, you don't have a
state, and you don't serve as an address for any political
reference.
MARGARET WARNER: So do I take it you're saying, one, you didn't put
much stock in those reports about the efforts underway within the
Palestinian groups; and two, that there was no link between that and
the attack?
FM PERES: I think so, yes. Shehade himself may be described as a
local bin Laden. He is responsible for the killing of over 200
persons. He still continues to plan more bombs and more suicide
bombers. And we have had to do it. You know, he was in prison. He was
released, and instead of returning to normal civilian life, he went
back to terror. We told the Palestinians, "Arrest him and you'll save
his life."
MARGARET WARNER: Prime Minister Sharon appointed you last weekend to
coordinate humanitarian aid for the Palestinians, you mentioned that
earlier. What are your plans in that regard?
FM PERES: What we plan is to really take pragmatic steps: (a) to open
our market for Palestinian workers. This will bring them an immediate
income. It's not simple for us, because some of them may be
dangerous. But we understand that if they will not have an income,
they cannot support their families. You started with 7,000, it went
up to 12,000, today it's 20,000.
We shall continue to do more of the same in order to facilitate
immediately their economic situation; (b), we have de-freezed some of
the money that was hold in our hands. We trust the new minister of
finance, we transferred something like 10 percent of two billion
shekels - it's something like $40 million or $50 million that we have
transferred. We paid some of their debts for electricity and for
health, and if they will manage it correctly, we shall continue to do
so.
Thirdly, we are going to renew and extend the industrial parks, which
again will provide work for the Palestinians. And then finally, we
told them, "Every place that you will take charge of and tranquilize
the situation, life will become normal again." And we're also doing a
lot of things that would be too long a list to repeat it, but every
step, small or big, will be taken by us in order to help the
Palestinians because we are not fighting a people, we are fighting
terror.