Briefing by
Matan Vilnai, Minister of Science, Culture & Sport
Brigadier General Shuki Shihur, Head of Operations IDF Northern Command
National Media Center, Jerusalem,
April 8, 2002
Min. Matan Vilnai: Good Afternoon. We are now in the tenth day of
Operation Defensive Shield and I believe that the main issue that you
would like to know is how long it will take till the end of the
operation. There is no real answer for this, but to understand the
Americans and their point of view and their demand that we have to
stop the operation. I would like to declare that Israel has no
intention to stay in the Palestinian areas. We have said this from
the outset. We are not going to conquer the A areas or the areas of
the PA. We would like only to uproot terror from all the areas and
then we will leave. I am not sure how long it will take. I am sure
that it is not a matter of weeks, but it is not a matter of hours. We
have to find the real time in order to leave places when we have
finished our job, we will leave. In other places we will stay until
we have accomplished all the missions.
We remember that it has been four days since President Bush called
upon Yasser Arafat to declare in Arabic that he renounces terrorism.
We are still waiting. President Bush is still waiting. The whole
world is still waiting and I am sure that we may have to wait for a
long time. Israel and the US see eye to eye on the issue of
terrorism. I am sure that you understand, and the President mentioned
it more than one time, that peace talks and terrorism cannot live
together. This is one of the problems since September 2000. It's been
more than a year and a half when, after Arafat took a strategic
decision, we are under terror attacks, as all of you know very
well.
Some words about the operation: The results have proven themselves
very well. The operation is necessary. Till now we apprehended more
than 1,400 suspects. One third of them are wanted. We are questioning
each one of them in order to realize who is a terrorist, who is a
suspect, and those who can be sent home will be sent home.
We lost 12 soldiers during the fighting and around 160 wounded in
action. These are the casualties on our side. On the Palestinians
side, there are several hundreds of Palestinians that have been
killed, most of them with arms in their hands.
The fighting in refugee camps is very problematic and until this
operation, it was thought obvious that the moment that we enter the
refugee camps, two things would happen: Firstly, there would be a
massacre and secondly the force would be caught in the camp and they
would be unable to do anything. In this operation, operating in
refugee camps, with civilians in the camps, we are operating as
accurately as we can in this case.
By now, the terrorists understand that the refugee camps are not a
shelter any more. It used to be a shelter for many years. It is not
only in this case - in the first intifada it was the same; before the
intifada it was the same. It is not the case any more. They
understand that they cannot execute terror attacks against Israelis
and then escape to take refuge in refugee camps. We will go after
them and pursue them into the camps, if need be.
I would like to say a few words about the situation in the North. All
of you understand the Hizbullah would like to do their utmost in
order to open a second front so that we will have to deal with two
fronts at the same time - the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria and
maybe in Gaza and along the Lebanese border. You all remember May
2000 - almost two years ago - we withdrew from all the purple line
and now it's the blue line. It's the old line from 1923 between the
French mandate and the British mandate in Palestine, and we withdrew
from every centimeter.
The Hizbullah are trying to open a second front against us. Until now
they "played" in the area of what was called Shab'a, Har Dov in our
terms. Since two days ago, they started to open fire along the blue
line, near Kibbutz Menara, Moshav Avivim - they shelled with mortars
one of our positions, and several of our soldiers have been wounded.
We understand their intentions. They are trying their utmost to make
us retaliate.
When we say Hizbullah - Hizbullah is connected first of all to Iran,
but they are acting under the umbrella of the Syrians. They are the
real rulers of the State of Lebanon. Therefore, it's not only the
Hizbullah - it's the Iranians, Syrians and Lebanese. It's a very
complicated situation and we are watching all the incidents very
carefully and we will have to decide how to react. We have asked the
Americans to do their utmost in order that nothing happens in that
front. One of the main issues since September 2000 is that we do not
have an overall war in the Middle East.
Since we started to retaliate to the Palestinians under the
government of Prime Minister Barak, we looked very carefully at the
problem of small terror acts and our reaction and then we will find
ourselves one morning in an overall war in the Middle East. We are
using our force very carefully not to get to such a situation and in
the North it is very problematic. It is not terror; it can be more
than terror.
I am sure you are familiar with their rocket launchers and their
capability. Now, we are talking about the whole northern part of
Israel, up to Zichron Yaakov, which is south of Haifa. If this area
will be under rocket shells, you can understand what this means. The
north, is therefore, very problematic and we are looking very
carefully regarding the actions in the northern part of Israel.
Brig.Gen. Shihrur: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen.
I just got information 15 minutes ago before entering this room that
the daily fire of the Hizbullah that started nine days ago, started
again also today. As usual, they started firing over the vicinity of
`Dov' Mountain and they are still firing. I will give you some
information regarding what has been taking place over the last few
days.
Before that, I would like to tell you a short story. Today at 2:00 PM
before flying here we got information that their two missiles have
been shot on one of the posts along the border. This post is very
close to the Kibbutz I am living in, I called home to see that three
of my kids are home and okay and my small son told me, 'Dad, I think
that these are jets flying above'. To tell you, how on one hand, the
tension of the soldiers and their readiness, and on the other hand
the tension and sensitivity of the population along the border that
suffered in the past and are again suffering.
On May 24, 2000 we withdrew from Lebanon. We didn't lose one single
soldier doing it. On the other hand, in one day, the State of Israel
absorbed 6,600 refugees from Lebanon, former SLA soldiers and their
families. Just to remind you, I don't remember in the modern era any
country in the world that absorbed in one day thousands of refugees.
Besides Israel, in the Moses and Solomon operations, but we brought
our Jewish brethren from Ethiopia. This time we brought Muslims,
Christians and we took care of them pretty well till this moment.
On June 16, Mr. Kofi Anan stood up in New York and declared that
Israel had complied with UN Resolution 425. It was almost one month
after the unilateral withdrawal of the Israeli forces from
Lebanon.
On June 18, the Security Council approved the declaration of Mr. Kofi
Anan and said that Israel complied with the UN Resolution 425. This
UN Resolution calls Israel to evacuate Lebanon on one hand and calls
on the Lebanese forces to come to the South and restore law and
order. We complied with this. We moved from every place that the
people of UNIFIL and UN main cartographer told us to move. Just not
to give any pretext to the other side - to the Lebanese and the
Hizbullah and any other terror organization - that we hold a square
inch of Lebanese soil.
But, this is not good enough probably for the Hizbullah. Listen
carefully to what Mr. Nasrallah declares every day. He is looking for
pretexts to continue to fight. His is a guerilla organization that
after we evacuated Lebanon, has no reason to continue to fight. He
will become irrelevant and there is nothing worse than becoming
irrelevant to a guerilla organization. So he wants to ignite the
whole blue line.
His first pretext was the Shab'a Farms, Dov Mountain. UNIFIL declared
that even if you go to 1,000 lire bill in Lebanese currency you will
see in the corner a short map. They decided according to the
Anglo-French committee following the agreement in 1923, and got
another approval in February 1949 after the cease-fire agreements.
Israel complied with every inch. Hizbullah didn't. Even Farouq
A-Shara - the Syrian Foreign Minister - declared that this is Syrian
territory that should be negotiated between Syria and Israel
according to UN Resolution 242 and not according to UN Resolution
425.
But the Lebanese didn't come to the south, they brought about 1500
soldiers to Bint Jbel and to Marjayoun, far away from the border,
they camouflage them as policemen so as not to take responsibility
over the South. And in Lebanon there is no vacuum. Each place we
evacuated, Hizbullah entered. From there, from 22 different posts
along the border, and from guerilla forces in Shab'a Farms, they
continue to fire. We have to prevent it.
At the beginning they fired in a restricted area, but after that they
continued. They already shot Katyusha rockets last week on Kibbutz
Matzuba, where five innocent people were killed. After that they
fired rockets on Kiryat Shmona, and shot anti-tank missiles at Ghajar
village. Ghajar village is a Syrian village. The population there is
Alawi, the same minority that Presidents Assad from Syria are from -
the current and his father. And here in Ghajar there is a small post
of our forces. The Hizbullah shoot missiles from here, wounding very
seriously four children, Alawis from the village.
They realized that they made a mistake. First, they transferred the
fire from Dov Mountain and then they wounded civilians. They didn't
take responsibility as they used to do. Hizbullah is very good at
showing to the world, I am here, I continue to support the
Palestinians, I am the only organization firing in the North, but
when something goes wrong, when civilians are wounded, when Arab
civilians especially are wounded - they don't take responsibility.
Yesterday they continued to fire on a post in the vicinity of Kibbutz
Menara, and this is also in the vicinity of Moshav Avivim. Nine
missiles were fired yesterday, and four female soldiers were wounded
in this attack.
Syria is the real country governing Lebanon. They were invited in
1975 by the Lebanese to support them and take responsibility to
control the civil war that was in Lebanon in those days. They
remained in Lebanon since then and they can control whatever they
want. Another key player here are of course, the Iranians. Hizbullah,
like Amal, all the Shi'ite fanatical fundamentalist organizations,
came from the school of the Iranians. If you listen to Nasrallah one
of the pretexts is the main idea of the Shi'ite and the main idea of
the Islamic fundamentalists. An Islamic world, an Islamic Middle East
with the capital here in Jerusalem.
But this is only the fifth pretext of Nasrallah.
The next reason is the 19 people we hold in prison, and after it the
need and will of Hizbullah to show the Arab world that they are
active and they are supporting the Palestinians and of course, the
pretext I mentioned, an Islamic Middle East.
They have many reasons to continue. If tomorrow morning the Cabinet
and Minister Vilnai decide to give back Shab'a Farms, do you think
they will stop the fighting? No. We know already that they will
continue to fire. Of course, we are preparing ourselves. We are ready
for our mission but we will do whatever the government tells us to
do.
It will be interesting for all of you to speak to General Lalit
Tivari, the current commander of UNIFIL. When he goes along the blue
line, when he knows very certainly, that we are not taking every
Lebanese inch, we are not violating Lebanese territory, the Hizbullah is. And he has been saying this from time to time and he is trying
to prevent it.
The Israeli government allowed the army yesterday to bring a few
reserve soldiers in order to prepare the area and to be prepared for
further actions if necessary. We are ready; we have the ability, the
power and the means. We will do it when the Israeli government
decides.
It should be remembered - from time to time people say this is not
Hizbullah. This is another Palestinian terror organization. Who
cares? Is there any address written on their rockets? Any terror
activity against innocent civilians is a terror activity. It's a
coalition of terrorism. The Prime Minister declared last week to the
world that part of the events were because of the Jibril
organization. Nasrallah took responsibility for some of the events
and some he preferred not to take responsibility for. Especially
after September 11. Especially after the western world and the US are
looking for terrorism in the world. He has good reason why not to
declare it. We know the truth.
Min. Matan Vilnai: The Hizbullah is dominating all south Lebanon and
no organization can act in south Lebanon without permission of the
Hizbullah. It is obvious. Sometimes for them it is very convenient
that a Palestinian organization takes the responsibility and will act
against us, but everything in south Lebanon is not under the
government of Beirut, nor the government of Damascus, it is basically
under the Hizbullah and everything in south Lebanon is under the
watchful eye of the Hizbullah.
Brigadier General Shuki Shihur: We think that the Hizbullah crossed a
red line. Many people talk about a second front. The main idea is
that we are not happy to open a second front, but we will not
hesitate to do it if the situation will force us to do so.
The last subject I would like to address is that on the other side of
the border is a government. The Lebanese government. They are
responsible for Lebanon. They are trying from time to time. If not in
front of a camera, you can ask the key people there. I believe that
they think more about culture and agriculture and economics and not
about terrorism. But, sometimes they don't have enough power to
enforce it. We see them responsible for everything happening along
the border especially when they didn't comply with UN Resolution
425.
A few words to the people of the north - we lost 7 soldiers since we
evacuated from Lebanon. This is the mission of the army. We lost also
5 civilians in the event in the vicinity of Matzuba. Till now we will
continue to do the best to defend the northern border and to let the
citizens live normal lives. They are strong.
Thank you.
Questions & Answers:
Q: What does your intelligence show you are facing from the north in
Lebanon? Syrian troops, Lebanese army, Hizbullah. What exactly are
you facing? Is it building up? Can you fill us in on what is going on
regarding the political/diplomatic track?
Min. Matan Vilnai: The main threat from Lebanon is the fact that the
Hizbullah has rocket bases that can cover a range up to Zichron
Yaakov - 30 kms south of Haifa. It is a third of Israel's territory,
which is in the range of the Hizbullah rockets. This is the main
threat from Lebanon. I am talking about thousands of rockets that are
now along the blue line between Lebanon and us. This is the main
issue. We are using now diplomatic channels because the situation now
is very complicated. There are several figures, one of them the
President of Syria Assad; President of Lebanon Emile Lahoud; Prime
Minister of Lebanon Hariri - there are very complicated relations
between them and you have to remember that the Iranians are in the
background. Maybe the Iranians are trying to do something in order to
postpone a US attack against them because of the terror attacks of
September 11, so it has become a global problem and not only a minor
problem of the Israelis.
Q: What has Israel been doing in terms of retaliation when the
attacks started nine days ago? As far as the upcoming withdrawal from
the West Bank goes, I think that General Mofaz said that there are
hundreds of thousands of guns in the West Bank. To make a suicide
belt doesn't take much. After Israel gets out, and there is nobody
over there among the Palestinians to take over, what can you do to
ensure that we won't go back to where it was before Israel went in
there?
General Shihur: Regarding Lebanon, in any event that happened in the
past few days. First we fired back to the fire sources with tanks,
artillery, with helicopters and close air support of aircraft. We are
doing this in the vicinity of the sources of the firing. We are
restricting ourselves with 100% restrictions regarding distance
between the targets and innocent civilians, UNIFIL positions, that no
one is hurt by these attacks. Yesterday, we attacked the target a
little deeper - because there were cannons shooting on the villages
and we attacked this target. Besides that we are restricting
ourselves only to that. There are casualties on the other side, not
to be declared by me here.
Min. Matan Vilnai: Do you know where the most secure border in the
world is? Between Belgium and Holland. It's an open area. You can
move with ten formations, no mines, nothing. You can do this very
easily but there is no motivation to do it. And I am sure you know
from history that many days ago there was a lot of motivation on both
sides. Not any more. Therefore, the solution for the terror is not
only by using force. Therefore, our Prime Minister mentioned in the
Knesset several hours ago, he called upon the Arab leaders of the
Middle East, to sit and talk - what we tried according to the Oslo
agreements nine years ago: we tried to sit and speak with Arafat.
When we withdrew from Gaza, we were sure that we were opening a new
phase between the Palestinians and us. Not any more. Therefore, we
have to fight again and there is no military solution. After our
military attack we have to sit and talk. We have to find a leader to
talk with, and it's not in his goal to find such a leader. We are
going to deploy our forces along the security zone, along the former
border and we are going to talk with someone, either Palestinians or
any other Arab ruler will take responsibility, in order to talk so
that we do not get into an overall war in the Middle East.
Q: We spoke to some journalists in Ramallah who said that soldiers
blew open their door to the place where they are staying and working,
rounded up the journalists, confiscated some video tapes - one of
many incidents in the last week, the expulsion of a journalist from
Abu Dhabi and attacks on some journalists on Ramallah last week.
There appears to be a campaign to at least intimidate some
journalists working in the West Bank. What is the government policy
to our journalists?
Min. Matan Vilnai: It is not our policy and if something happened it
has to be checked out. I will check this out and this is not
according to our policy. The policy is to allow journalists to work
freely. I understand that there are several orders from the Ministry
of Defense about it, and they have to be checked. I believe that
people all over the world have to see what is happening there, not
only from the Palestinian side but also from our side.
Q: Before beginning his Middle East tour, the Secretary of State said
that given the circumstances he would meet Arafat. Which
circumstances have to occur in order for this meeting to take place?
What is your position as a Labor Party member concerning such a
meeting?
Mr. Matan Vilnai: As a Labor Party member I believe that it is very
important that the Americans meet Arafat. But it's very important
that Arafat declares in Arabic his attitude to terror in order for it
to stop. I believe it is important that the Americans will meet him.
Not any one else.