Excerpts from Interview with Senior Dep DG Yoav Biran

Israel Television, Channel 1
September 10, 1998

Current Mediation Efforts of Dennis Ross

Yoav Biran: We welcome the presence and activity of Dennis Ross, the U.S. Special Representative, and hope that he will succeed in helping us - that is to say, helping the Israelis and Palestinians - to progress. Our ability to progress is dependent, in my opinion, on one basic question - namely, whether there is an open willingness on both sides to fulfill their obligations, as they had already agreed to do in the past, and to move forward. I am certain that this is Israel's intention. I very much hope that we will see a similar readiness on the part of the Palestinians.

I could go into detail on the issues that are on the agenda, but there is no point in doing so. What is important is to understand that, in the interests of both sides, we must move forward and that progress is predicated upon the fulfillment of all obligations by both sides, as was clearly agreed at the time of the Hebron Agreement. This is so that we may build up confidence, build cooperation and establish progress, not only in order to finalize those issues that are still to be resolved, but also to move forward on the basis of mutual trust and through goodwill and openness towards the central issue, which is the renewal of the final status negotiations between ourselves and the Palestinians.

The fact that both sides requested this mediation, and the fact that the United States acceded to this request, proves as a matter of simple logic that the Americans also share the feeling that the possibility of progress exists - not necessarily a breakthrough, not necessarily an agreement, but progress nonetheless. Indeed, progress, however small it may be (and I hope that it will not be small), is important.

Egypt's Position

Interviewer: If so, it is necessary to refer to the Egyptian position that no Israeli-Palestinian agreement is preferable to one that the sides are compelled to accept, as stated by Egyptian Foreign Minister, Amr Moussa.

Yoav Biran: I am happy to agree with Amr Moussa. Israel's position has always been that an agreement which is forced upon the parties is not only bad but will also not last. The only agreement that Israel will reach with any side to the Middle East conflict is one that is not forced upon the parties, an agreement that flows from direct negotiations between the sides, occasionally with the welcome assistance of the United States, but, in the final analysis, the decisions and the risks are those of the two sides.

We are talking about an agreement that will resolve a number of existing problems, including, for instance, the issue of non-fulfillment of previous obligations. How can one expect to progress on issues that greatly affect one's country and that involve substantial concessions, if one is uncertain - or, worse still, one is certain - that what was agreed upon earlier has not been carried out. If those same obligations are not fulfilled and one party still moves forward, that party is essentially saying to the other side: "I am ready to play this strange and unfair game, where you will not have to fulfill all your obligations but I will fulfill mine, and we will just keep doing that."

Israel's Position in the World

Interviewer: Sir, how has the freeze in the peace process affected Israel's position on the international stage, and particularly at the UN?

Yoav Biran: It has of course affected Israel, and we have seen a number of debates and some damaging one-sided decisions that have not reflected the reality in the international sphere. It is unhelpful, we find it unpleasant, but if someone thinks that by shifting the debate and the issue from direct negotiations between ourselves and the Palestinians, or between ourselves and the Syrians, to a diplomatic campaign, to verbal decisions and unbalanced declarations against Israel in the international sphere, he is mistaken.

Certainly, we do not derive any satisfaction from what happened at the UN, and of course there must be many people outside of the Middle East who believe that the UN has been pushed in an undesirable and negative direction. For instance, emergency meetings of the General Assembly used to occur only very occasionally and in genuine international crises. Today, emergency meetings are convened on any issue, real or imaginary, and resolutions are passed. I am not claiming that Israel gains any benefit from the fact that resolutions like these are passed with such overwhelming majorities. Israel will not reach an agreement in this way. Israel will not concede vital interests as a result of such resolutions. Israel will be encouraged to proceed and make the necessary concessions, if the other side demonstrates that it is indeed ready to progress through direct negotiations, and that it understands that we are dealing with the need to reach a compromise, a compromise that we will both agree upon.

French-Egyptian Initiative for an International Conference

Progress on the bilateral issues between Israel and her neighbors can only be achieved through bilateral negotiations, and not through an international conference. An international conference may be very helpful in addressing other issues, such as the advancement of the regional multilateral process. There has been a positive development in the multilateral negotiations and the work that has been carried out in many areas, thereby boosting the peace process.

'Palestinian State'

Interviewer: At next week's session of the UN General Assembly, the Palestinian question will be raised with all its grave implications, and the signs are that the Arab bloc and the bloc of the non-aligned states will recognize a Palestinian state. The question is, as a representative of the Foreign Ministry and as someone who has presumably prepared to deal with this issue, what will Israel's position be?

Yoav Biran: This is an artificial attempt by the Palestinians to create facts in a one-sided fashion that have no foundation in any agreement. We are familiar with such attempts. There have been attempts in the past to raise the level of the Palestinian Mission at the UN, and aside from a few limited achievements, their grand design did not come to fruition. They are now trying again. Any one-sided Palestinian attempt to proclaim a state or to gain recognition of such a state, will not only be unhelpful but it will also be damaging to the peace process, since it is a violation of the Oslo Agreement.

Interviewer: What will be Israel's reaction, if this occurs?

Yoav Biran: Israel will state unequivocally that this is a violation of the Oslo Agreements and will draw the appropriate conclusions. I do not wish to go into detail regarding the action that will be taken, as I want to avoid declarations, counter-declarations, threats and counter-threats. We should not be dealing in the exchange of threats but rather in the exchange of constructive proposals, so that we can move forward.

Southern Lebanon

Interviewer: Is Israel still sticking by its initiative to carry out Security Council Resolution 425, on Southern Lebanon?

Yoav Biran: Certainly. In our eyes, this will definitely be in Israel's interest. We have no desire to see our boys in Southern Lebanon. This will certainly help Israel, but we honestly believe that it will be in Lebanon's interest as well. Lebanon will certainly want to see an Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon and will want an atmosphere of stability and security in the area, and we believe that will serve the interests of all the states in the region.

I want to make it clear that the Israeli initiative to apply Resolution 425 is not intended to harm any party, nor is it aimed at any country. It is intended to resolve our security concerns in the northern Galilee and our presence in Southern Lebanon that was in fact imposed upon us. All that we ask is that Resolution 425 be carried out in full, including the requirement that stability and security are restored to the Israeli- Lebanese border. If this is achieved, it will serve Israeli interests, but it will also be in Lebanese interests no less, and will serve regional interests. It will bring an element of stability to the region and will encourage peace. If the various states allow Lebanon to decide for itself whether this move is worthwhile, it will also create an element of trust between ourselves and these states.

Amongst UN bodies and many states, there is understanding, recognition and even admiration of the Israeli initiative. It has been received as an initiative of good faith, a serious and a positive move rather than a hindrance. Unfortunately, there is still one neighboring state -

Interviewer: Syria -

Yoav Biran: - that is not helping in this issue. The issue, however, is not only on Israel's agenda, but it is also on the international community's agenda and that of the UN. I hope that those states that have declared that they want to see a better, more stable and secure Middle East (and I believe them) will not merely make do with verbal statements, but will assist all the Middle East parties who are involved in this issue to progress and carry out Resolution 425.

Relations with Jordan

Interviewer: In Jordan, there have been expressions of disappointment with the results of the peace agreement. What are you doing in the Foreign Ministry to improve the atmosphere and to improve relations between yourselves and Jordan?

Yoav Biran: The peace with Jordan is very important to the State of Israel. It is a most welcome peace, and it is the second such agreement that we have achieved with a neighboring country . This agreement is a very important milestone. I hope that future developments will demonstrate that, ever since the signing of the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, we have been moving- albeit with ups and downs along the way - in the direction of a more comprehensive peace. We hope that all sides will benefit from the fruits of peace.

We are working with Jordan on a long list of projects involving cooperation - in trade, on the issue of water that is essential to both populations, in matters of transport and on economic issues. You know, for instance, of the very important project of the Salaam/Shalom Airport in Aqaba, which will serve both sides. The Government of Israel has decided to move ahead with this project. There are an increasing number of joint industrial plants, some of them in Jordan, that provide employment to thousands of Jordanians. It is difficult to achieve great things in such a short space of time, but there is a positive momentum, and there already are achievements on the ground.

The positive thing about the peace between ourselves and Jordan is that, even where we disagree on certain issues, we still feel the need to make progress and build a better world for our respective populations. I hope that this situation will eventually apply to our relations with other Arab states and with all our neighbors.

The Annual Economic Conference

Interviewer: What has been achieved since the Casablanca Conference?

Yoav Biran: Good. Let us look back to the last conference, which was held in Doha, Qatar. As you may remember, a number of Arab states turned the subject of regional economic cooperation into a political issue and decided that since the political situation in the Middle East was not to their liking, they would boycott the conference. Their absence was felt, of course. Nevertheless, many of the states in the region and outside of it participated in the conference. The conference was a success, because the economic parties and the businessmen who participated, including Israelis, said that "it was a successful conference and we benefited from it" - this, ultimately, is the criterion for success. What counts in measuring the success of such an event, is not what the Israeli or Arab foreign ministries

say, but rather whether the actual participants in such a conference are satisfied.

Interviewer: Satisfied maybe, but there is no conference in the coming year.

Yoav Biran: It is a shame, because the loser here is not only Israel but the Middle East in general. The political issue is very important .... there are serious global economic problems. Israel's economy is strong and stable, but, as you know, it is also going through a difficult time, due to a number of factors, including the international situation. There is a recession, and there are unemployment problems. An economic conference would enable not only us but our neighbors as well to resolve our problems and help us to progress. The question is whether we freeze our economic and social relations in the region until a comprehensive political solution is found, or whether we progress together.

Israel-Turkey

Interviewer: The Prime Minister of Turkey visited Israel this week, and Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke of the regional security framework. Syria and Egypt both condemned this, of course. Is the increasingly close relationship between Israel and Turkey a sign of the establishment of a military and political alliance?

Yoav Biran: The visit of the Turkish Prime Minister to Israel was important and successful. He came with a number of ministers and dealt with a wide range of issues. A lot of attention has been focused on the security dimension, but it is important to remember that we worked on a wide range of cooperative ventures in economics, trade, development of technological-intensive industries, projects that will benefit the populations of both states. In regard to security, our wish is simply to make the Middle East a better and more secure region. Israeli-Turkish cooperation is not designed to harm any state - on the contrary, it is intended to help states in the region. The model that I would like to present as an example is the Council of Security and Cooperation, which was established between Western and Eastern Europe after the Cold War. The Council was not aimed against any party, and was rather designed to help all sides.

I want to make it clear that the idea of regional security is not an Israeli one, but it has in fact been referred to by a number of world statesmen, including Prince Hassan of Jordan and Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind of Britain. The idea of regional security is an excellent one and is designed for the good of the entire region. We are not talking about an Israeli-Turkish axis that is aimed against any particular party. Rather, we are referring to the building of cooperation that will hopefully include Egypt, Jordan and other states in the region - not against any party, but rather for the good of all.

Interviewer: The subject of water has been included, and it is one of the issues for cooperation between Israel and Turkey.

Yoav Biran: It is an issue that has been investigated in the past, and both Prime Ministers decided to look into the issue very actively. I do not need to say very much about the water requirements of Israel and other states in the region. If we had more water, we could develop agriculture and improve the population's standard of living. We are examining a number of options, including carrying water through plastic balloons. When peace finally arrives in the region, we may be able to carry water through a pipe from Turkey to all states in the region, including Syria and Lebanon.